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Is PTC's spec faulty? - Publish EPMDoc updates non-latest WTPart which may lead to erronous Released data

November 25, 2016, 1:03 am
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If your company has set up Windchill with WTParts and publishes EPMDocuments both on Checkin and during the Release workflow this behaviour may lead to incorrect data to be Released. I will present two use cases that describe the problem. While the first is easiest to reproduce it leads to no critical errors but could still be seen as incorrect behaviour. The other causes non-latest data to be released.

 

TL;DR: The published representation of an EPMDoc when its WTPart has been iterated past latest "built" configuration is copied to non-latest WTPart. PTC states this is "working according to spec". Should the spec be treated as a bug?

 

Settings in wvs.properties:

publish.copyrepresentationsforward=true (Representation should be copied forward to the new iteration)

publish.copyrepresentationsforward.restrict=false (Representations for WTParts should be copied forward to the new iteration)

 

Use case 1:

  1. Create a CAD model with WTPart
  2. Wait for publishing to complete
  3. Iterate WTPart without EPMDocument
  4. Promote WTPart 1.2 and EPMDoc 1.1 to Release
  5. Representation created from publishing during workflow is not linked to latest WTPart

Since CAD data has not been altered and the representation of WTPart 1.1 is copied to WTPart 1.2 on iteration this use case does not lead to erronous data being released. If you'd go into Representations/Annotations you will see that WTPart 1.1 shows the representation published during the release process while latest iteration will show that it was copied from WTPart 1.1 before it was published during release. While this causes no critical issues it can still be seen as faulty.

 

Use case 2 (during heavy load on worker):

  1. Create and check in CAD model with WTPart, wait for publishing to complete
  2. The worker is now under high load and the queue is long, which means it may take several minutes for next-in-line publishing to complete
  3. Check out WTPart and EPMdoc, modify EPMDoc and check in.
  4. Publishing of EPMdoc is now in queue. WTPart get representation from 1.1 copied.
  5. Check out WTPart, modify attributes and check in. WTPart get representation from 1.1 copied. Publishing of EPMDoc 1.2 is still in queue.
  6. Publishing of EPMDoc 1.2 finishes and the representation is copied to its "built configuration" WTPart 1.2
  7. Latest WTPart now show non-latest and not up to date model as its default representation
  8. Promote all latest to Released
  9. Publishing during workflow is linked to non-latest WTPart
  10. Latest (Under Review) WTPart now shows wrong model in Windchill and in Creo View
  11. Approve Promote Request. Part Configuration of the released structure is generated during workflow.
  12. Latest (Released) WTPart and Part Configuration now shows wrong model in Windchill and in Creo View

With a sufficiently large organization this scenario may play out for more than just this one customer we've identified the problem at. The worker may have a long queue and since there are no option to define that publishing should link the resulting representation to the latest WTPart this may cause erronous data to be released.

 

I've brought this to PTC's attention but I'm told that this is working according to spec and it will not be fixed. We tried to argue that if this was the spec then the spec surely must be faulty, to which I was told we would have to present our findings to the PTC Community to see if I'd get support here for these findings. PTC states that "WVS determines the earliest 'built' WTPart iteration to be the 'Representable' object".

 

This was our feedback from PTC (customer name removed): The official response is that we have no near term plans to change the current behavior. [You] might want to put forth their use-case / scenario on the PTC Community and see how other customers may have addressed this use-case, if indeed they have the same situation as [your customer].

 

I have seen (and voted on) a product idea from Nicola Giacomelli asking for this functionality so I know at least some out there see things our way. Have any of you other Windchill users seen or experienced this potentially grave issue and if so how have you addressed it? If you haven't seen it yet I hope that you see it as a potentially dangerous flaw in this behaviour and can vote for the product idea suggested by Nicola Giacomelli.

 

CS61223 & SPR 2186339

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Re: Is PTC's spec faulty? - Publish EPMDoc updates non-latest WTPart which may lead to erronous Released data

November 25, 2016, 1:25 am
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Hi

 

Agree with you for this particular point.

I still don't understand why the Representation handle by the EPMDocument is copied  forward to the WTpart in the Viz Service.  Except that the actual Worker behaviour is to copy some WTpart informations in the Rep.  I've personnaly an idea to dynamically load attributes from any objects in Creo View session ....

 

We use multi owner capability.  And that lead also to some weird things, cause the 1st owner link take the lead to other Wtparts ... the Representation is then duplicate on other WTparts from the 1st one, even if they have to be exactly the same ...

 

Anyway..   I think you probably talk about Assemblies Rep ? more than Component Rep ?

Cause for assemblies,  the default rep is always generated from a specific ConfigSpec (latest , astored ...) which will give a "static" structure  .  And then obsolete représentations if some sub levels are changing

 

But if you use the Dynamic representations.  I mean by loading a specif Configuration of your WTpart BOM . (based on any filter available in Windchill).  You never have obsolete Rep.  You are Wtpart centric and Windchill load and position components "has configured"

Some restiction about parts with assembly features, but last enhancements of the Vizualiation Service (since 10.2 M020 CPS17 I think ) allow to handle most of cases

 

Another idea for me.  A pref that permit to set the dynamic Viz as default (even if the little rep displayed on WTpart info page is not really up to date:  just a tiny image for helping users to see what kind of part it is ...)

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Re: Setting the default values for the OOTB WTPart attributes

November 25, 2016, 1:41 am
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Hi Ruben,

 

Use enumcustomize tool to add / remove any entry from the legal value list of the attribute of "Assembly Mode".

 

Thanks and Regards,

Kaushik

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Re: Is PTC's spec faulty? - Publish EPMDoc updates non-latest WTPart which may lead to erronous Released data

November 25, 2016, 2:04 am
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Gregory PERASSO wrote:

I think you probably talk about Assemblies Rep ? more than Component Rep ?

Cause for assemblies,  the default rep is always generated from a specific ConfigSpec (latest , astored ...) which will give a "static" structure  .  And then obsolete représentations if some sub levels are changing

 

But if you use the Dynamic representations.  I mean by loading a specif Configuration of your WTpart BOM . (based on any filter available in Windchill).  You never have obsolete Rep.  You are Wtpart centric and Windchill load and position components "has configured"

Some restiction about parts with assembly features, but last enhancements of the Vizualiation Service (since 10.2 M020 CPS17 I think ) allow to handle most of cases

If I understand you correctly you are referring to the fact that you can see a different assembly representation if you go into the Structure tab on the object info page than what you will see in the preview window under the Details tab. I am not referring to that, no. That one that you mention is another "feature" which is not very intuitive for fresh, or even seasoned, Windchill users to know about. My abovementioned issue can be reproduced even for component representations. In fact this is what I've described in order to try to keep things simple.

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Re: Windchill - Solidworks - workspace: where are my exported STL and PDF files?

November 25, 2016, 2:07 am
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Hi Gerard,

 

When SolidWorks is registered in Windchill Workgroup Manager, it saves all the files to active workspace location. In Save As, below types are supported in WGM connected mode.

SolidWorks_WGM_Supported_FileTypes.png

 

If you are using 10.2 & higher version of Windchill Workgroup Manager, then you can find those files locally at default location similar in your system. But these two file types are currently not managed by Windchill Workgroup Manager.

 

SolidWorks_FileTypes.png

 

Regards,

Pankaj Mooteri

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Put Form on Start Page in Windchill

November 25, 2016, 2:17 am
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Hi everyone,

 

does anybody know if it is possible (and if yes, how) to put a form on the start page?

 

Scenario

 

User starts Windchill -> gets customized Start page with form on it (some buttons on form to use them as link to other forms...)

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Tobias

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Re: Is PTC's spec faulty? - Publish EPMDoc updates non-latest WTPart which may lead to erronous Released data

November 25, 2016, 2:31 am
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OK

 

So agree with you.  It should be a bug

 

The owner link between WTpart and EPMdoc tracks precisely the exact iteration of the CAD that Build a WTpart

So whatever is the Worker load, or even whatever id the order you pubilsh the parts ...  the correct representation should be linked to the WTpart !

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Re: What is a resource bundle?

November 25, 2016, 4:45 am
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Resource bundles contain locale-specific objects. When your program needs a locale-specific resource, a String for example, your program can load it from the resource bundle that is appropriate for the current user's locale. In this way, you can write program code that is largely independent of the user's locale isolating most, if not all, of the locale-specific information in resource bundles...

More at java doc

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What is the difference between File Based Attribute and Ad-hoc Attribute

November 26, 2016, 3:48 am
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Hi All,

 

Can anyone tell me what is the difference between file based attributes and ad-hoc attributes ?

 

Thanks and Regards,

Aditya Achanta

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What is the difference between restricted domain and public domain ?

November 26, 2016, 4:22 am
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Hi All,

 

What is Public and Restricted Domains ? Can you please let me know about the same.

 

Thanks and Regards,

Aditya Achanta

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Re: What are pros and cons to set up multiple organizations over single organization in Windchill?

November 28, 2016, 12:57 am
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What will be the impact on maintenance and upgrade when we have multiple organizations?

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Advantages of using AutoCAD WGM in Windchil

November 28, 2016, 1:25 am
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We store AutoCAD drawings in Windchill as wt.documents. Other than the option to do a check in directly from AutoCAD using the AutoCAD WGM what else are the advantages of using a AutoCAD WGM and managing the documents as EPM documents, over storing it as wt.documents?

 

We are evaluating on whether we should move to AutoCAD WGM and start managing these documents as EPM Documents or continue managing them as wt.documents.

 

Currently we are not using wt.parts but plan to use it in the future.

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Re: Advantages of using AutoCAD WGM in Windchil

November 28, 2016, 3:22 am
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Hi Dinil,

 

In Windchill, AutoCAD WGM can carry out various workflows that can be productive to the end users and the company. Some of the few points that you can look into are as below:

 

  • PDM Interface integration with AutoCAD

    • AutoCAD has the embedded PTC Windchill Ribbon menu through which you can carryout various actions such as Check-in, Checkout, Revise & Check-out, Undo Checkout, Update Models, Open from Windchill etc.

    • Using PDM actions, you can open the cad document directly from Windchill & start working in CAD application.
  • Content & Relationship Management

    • Windchill understands AutoCAD relationships and file types such as Drawings, External References

    • Preference controls if drawing need to be considered as Standard Drawings
    • Understands more complex references
    • Create sub types of Windchill CAD Documents.
    • Flexible Soft Type support is available.
    • User can create New CAD Doc from HTML UI using a template
  • External References Management

    • Windchill is capable of locating all drawings referenced by a drawing model and automatically relating them to the part of the model.

    • Windchill supports external references (XREFs) not only to other AutoCAD drawings, but also to images and other non AutoCAD objects such as spreadsheets, documents etc.
  • BOM Management

    • Generate Windchill WTPart structures from AutoCAD “Blocks”.

    • Configuration file filters which blocks are exposed to Windchill as WTParts.
  • Support for AutoCAD Electrical Projects

    • Choose to manage related Project configuration files as attachments or separate documents.

    • Commands introduced to Save Project and Check In Project.
    • Electrical Project functionality enabled by preference.
    • Creates a Windchill “Reference” relationship between top level Project file and related files to enable easy retrieval to Workspace.
    • Electrical file shave their own icons in Windchill.
  • Block Specific Attribute Mapping

    • Specify block name in Windchill attribute mapping if attributes of the same name exist in several blocks. This prevent attribute mapping confusion by specifying Block Name and having greater control on usage of attribute mapping.

  

For more information, please refer to “PTC Windchill Workgroup Manager for AutoCAD Administrator's and User'sGuide”

 

Regards,

  Pankaj Mooteri

 

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Re: PSE - Adding Tabs

November 28, 2016, 4:45 am
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Jeff,

You mention driving functionality to the PSB instead.  Does that include a BOM markup?  Can we do that in PSB ... or somewhere on the roadmap?

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Access Policy added to Role does not apply, only to Group!

November 28, 2016, 1:07 pm
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Anyone seen this in WC11 M010?

If I add a policy to a Role in a container then the members of the group in that role don't get the access, if I add the same policy to the Group then they do!

Same for for OOB roles and new Roles that we have added.

I have tired at container, Org and Site policy with no luck.

 

I first notice this when members of a group could not see the Groups under the Roles {Says (Secured information) ]. When I allow Read for type Group for the role nothing changed, when I add it to the group then they could see the name of the Groups under the roles. Crazy.

 

Any ideas?

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Re: PSE - Adding Tabs

November 28, 2016, 2:31 pm
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We're looking into it.  Currently we attach an Excel spreadsheet to the Change object.  The Excel contains the BOM changes that are needed.  But if we can enter the proposed BOM changes in Windchill somehow (Structure Annotations), then we don't need the Excel file.  And then ideally we can press an "implement" button and the proposed changes would be made to the structure (as opposed to manually making the changes via Owner-linked model or in the PSB).

 

Where/when can we use Structure Annotations in PSB instead of PSE?

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Preventing multiple promotion requests on the same objects

November 28, 2016, 2:52 pm
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We implemented the Rework option in our promotion requests similar to the out of the box template in 10.2.

The rework options works great, as long as they don't need to change the collection.

A secondary problem we've found is that often the promoter will forget they have a promotion in rework, and will create a new promotion request.

So we end up with a brand new promotion and one that has rework data recorded.

This leads to queue failures when it's trying to lock an object that's already locked in Under Review.

 

My first instinct is to check for the objects being in Under Review. Though when the second promotion is started it's at an In Work state. You could only catch the failure on the original promotion with all the data.

 

We perform a check of objects checked out already. We also have a terminate path as part of the Rework task if they find a duplicate promotion or need to change the collection and just can't move forward with it. Though, right now I have to play watchdog over the WfPropagationQueue watching for any failures until I implement some sort of fix/prevention because the promoter gets no notification of a failure, and even if they did they might not know what the failure message means or what they need to do about it.

 

A second idea might be to look for any open Promotions against a Revision. Though that would require a bit more processing.

 

Ideally we would want to eliminate the duplicate promotion before it even gets started, terminate it after creation, or trigger some sort of flag to the promoter that there is an open promotion.

 

Do these make sense, anyone have any other ideas I'm missing?

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Re: Preventing multiple promotion requests on the same objects

November 28, 2016, 3:38 pm
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The New Prom Req wizard will not let users past the object collection screen if any object on it does not have a promotion transition from the current state in it's  current cycle template.

 

Maybe check the lifecycle and see if there are unwanted Promote transitions.  If you use the optional (but very helpful and highly recommended) "lock" transition to a temporary state at which there is no Promote transition, this seems like it would prevent the situation described.

 

Note: It's unbelievable, but the new Lifecycle UI add the Promote checkmark from every state to every other state on the first save (there is some algorithm in there created 15+ years ago and no one at PTC ever went back and removed it).  There are literally thousands of Windchill systems around the world that have lifecycle templates littered with extra Promotion transitions.  Also, if you do change the lifecycle template, you have to take relatively extreme measures to apply the latest iteration of the lifecycle template to all objects that use it.

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Re: Access Policy added to Role does not apply, only to Group!

November 28, 2016, 3:41 pm
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In Policy Admin, are you for sure applying the ACLs to the "Context Team Role" on the Roles tab?  Assuming so, are the user groups mapped to that Role in the Product/Library?

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Re: Preventing multiple promotion requests on the same objects

November 28, 2016, 3:52 pm
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The problem is while the Promotion is in Rework, the objects go back to In Work, which is the original promotable state and unlocked. They are set that way so they can be fixed and the promotion can be re-triggered from Rework back to Under Review and the objects are set back to Under Review awaiting approvals.

 

A Rework state on the objects might prevent this issue, but that would mean adding the lifecycle state to all objects. I think we considered this in the past for validating when objects were truly being reworked during promotion or change process. We try to limit lifecycle states on docs/parts/models for ease of understanding, also updating lifecycles on all the objects may be a bit more than we want to undertake at the moment.

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